Note (11th October 2023) : The data of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ in this article were measured in 2018. At that time the thickness of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ was around 5.7~5.8mm. However, in 2023 TTGearLab noticed that ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ has become heavier and thicker. The thickness of 2023 version is around 5.9mm, and newly measured Performence Indices are significantly different from those of 2018 version. TTGearLab is gradually updating recent articles those include ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. The data of 2018 version will be gradually replaced by the data of 2023 version. This article includes the data of 2018 version, and hasn’t been updated yet.
Note (19th August 2023) : The artificial fiber of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ has been changed in 2022. For that reason current version (= third version) of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is different from the original version (= second version) in this article. Regarding the difference between the new version and the original version, please refer to “DHS New Hurricane Long 5 (MY 2022) [Full Review]”.
1. Introduction
‘Hurricane Long’ series is the top models in current DHS (Double Happiness) blade range. ‘Long’ in the series is the name of world’s best player – Ma Long.
Whenever Ma Long changes his blade, new model of ‘Hurricane Long’ series is launched. His current blade, i.e. current top model of DHS, is ‘Hurricane Long 5’. And, one of his former blades is ‘Hurricane Long 3’.
‘Hurricane Long 5’ is a fiber blade, and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is a 7-ply wood blade. Both of those two are suitable for top players or skilled amateur players whose main technic is topspin.
Fig.02 shows ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’. The graphic of those two blades are almost identical – Light blue handle with yellow accent, black lens with gold text and blade surface without any printing. The graphic on blade heads in Fig.02 is not printed on the surface of blade but on the vinyl cover. Professional players will like the blade surface on which nothing is printed.
At the bottom of handle, there are plastic lens in which the picture of Ma Long is printed. The picture on ‘Hurricane Long 5’ (left) is not identical to that on ‘Hurricane Long 3’ (right). (Unfortunately those bottom lenses look cheap. But, probably nobody cares.)
There is a graphic on the backside of handle. It describes the head of dragon. That is because ‘Long’ which is the given name of Ma Long (‘Ma’ is family name) means ‘dragon’ in Chinese language. This graphic looks very good, differently from bottom lens.
Then let’s see the plywood constructions at a glance.
Above is the plywood construction of ‘Hurricane Long 5’. Arylate Carbon (ALC) is placed between the second (= middle) layer and the center layer of 5-ply wood construction. Top layer is Limba. Second layer and center layer are Ayous. Overall thickness is about 5.8mm. This construction is very similar to that of Butterfly InnerForce Layer ALC. Therefore it will be interesting if we examine the characteristics of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ with those of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’.
Above is the plywood construction of ‘Hurricane Long 3’. Interestingly, if we think that the red wood layer is fiber layer, the construction looks similar to that of ‘Hurricane Long 5’. I.e. this is the 7-ply wood construction that additional thin red wood layers are inserted between the second layer and the center layer of 5-ply wood construction. Top layer is Limba, and all other layers are Ayous. Overall thickness is 6.4mm. It is much thinner than Stiga ‘Clipper CR’ whose thickness is about 7.0mm and is basically suitable for smash although there are so many players who use ‘Clipper CR’ but whose playing style is not fast attach (= mainly smash + block) but topspin. For comparison, I selected ‘Clipper CC’ instead of ‘Clipper CR’ because ‘Clipper CC’ is thinner and softer than ‘Clipper CR’. Like ‘Hurricane Long 3’, ‘Clipper CC’ is for modern topspin style.
Then, let’s examine the characteristics of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ and compare those two with some other blades.
2. Blades to be compared
Following blades will be compared with ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’.
- Stiga Allround Classic – Reference for Performance Indices
- Butterfly InnerForce Layer ALC
- Stiga Carbonado 45
- Stiga Clipper CC
- Butterfly Korbel
‘Allround Classic’ is the representative of traditional all-round blades. And, it is the reference blade of Performance Indices in TTGear Lab. All indices for ‘Allround Classic’ is 1.0.
‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ has similar construction as ‘Hurricane Long 5’. The fiber of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is ‘Arylate Carbon’ which is same fiber as that of ‘Hurricane Long 5’. In the constructions of both of those two blades, ‘Arylate Carbon’ is placed under second layer (= middle layer). We call that kind of construction as ‘inner fiber construction’. Please refer to “Butterfly InnerForce Layer ALC – Overview & Lab Test” for more detailed information of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. And please also refer to “Characteristics of four known ‘Inner Fiber’ blades – Comparison” to look the overall characteristics of ‘Inner Fiber’ blades at a glance. The thickness of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is about 5.8~5.9mm. That is same as the thickness of ‘Hurricane Long 5’. Both of those two blades are being selected by many top players now. It will be meaningful if we can find out the similarity and difference between those two blades by the observation of performance indices.
‘Carbonado 45’ is also one of important blades those are being selected by top players now. It is not an ‘Inner Fiber’ blade because its fiber is placed directly under its top layer. The fiber of Stiga ‘Carbonado’ series is ‘Textreme’ which is basically a kind of woven Carbon fiber but is made much flatter than ordinary Carbon fiber. The flatness of ‘Textreme’ reduces the amount of epoxy when it is inserted in plywood. The result is higher efficiency of energy and much softer feeling when compared with conventional Carbon fiber. Stiga is applying three kinds of ‘Textreme’ for its ‘Carbonado’ series. Among those three, the one of the lowest density (= the softest one) is being applied to ‘Carbonado 45’. Also, the orientation of fiber in ‘Carbonado 45’ is not ‘vertical and horizontal’ but ’45° CW and CCW from vertical direction’. That makes the feeling of ‘Carbonado 45’ even softer. Therefore we can compare ‘Carbonado 45’ with ‘Hurricane Long 5’ or ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ those are the blades with ‘Inner Fiber’ construction.
‘Clipper CC’ is a blade with traditional 7-ply ‘Clipper Type’ construction. But, the thickness of ‘Clipper CC’ is meaningfully reduced from that of ‘Clipper CR’ or ‘Clipper Wood’. The reduced thickness makes ‘Clipper CC’ slower and softer. That makes ‘Clipper CC’ suitable for modern topspin style. Because ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is also a 7-ply blade with reduced speed for modern topspin style, it will be meaningful to observe the similarity and the difference between ‘Clipper CC’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’.
‘Korbel’ is a representative of 5-ply wood offensive blade. In fact, the most important meaning of many ‘Inner Fiber’ blades or modern 7-ply wood blades is the improvement of speed from ‘Korbel’ for survive the change of the environment of table tennis. Therefore it will be meaningful that we also include Korbel in this comparison.
Comparison will be done by performance indices. Concerning the detail of four performance indices, please refer to following articles in ‘Background’ section :
- Performance indices : the way to evaluate blade by measurement
- The example of comparison by performance indices
3. Comparison by Performance Indices
Fig.07 shows the comparison graph of Elasticity Indices.
Ep (Primary Elasticity Index) is directly concerned with the rebound speed of blade. In general, Ep of 5-ply wood blades is in the range of 1.0 and 2.0. Around 1.5 can be considered as the standard value of Ep of 5-ply wood ‘offensive’ blade. Ec (Central Elasticity Index) is concerned with additional ‘kick’ when player hits ball very hard. In general, Ec of 5-ply wood blade is lower than Ep of that blade. This makes the feeling of most of 5-ply wood blade even softer than its actual softness.
Ep and Ec of ‘Hurricane Ling 5’ are 1.64 and 1.24 respectively. And, Ep and Ec of ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are 1.56 and 1.34 respectively. The difference between Ep and Ec of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is bigger than that between Ep and Ec of ‘Hurricane Long 3’. ‘Hurricane Long 5’ provides higher primary elasticity and lower central elasticity when compared to ‘Hurricane Long 3’. But, the fundamental difference between two blades doesn’t look significant.
We know that the construction of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is similar to that of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. The primary elasticity index – Ep – of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is not much different from that of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. However, the central elasticity index – Ec – of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is much smaller than that of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. It means that in actual use we will hardly feel that ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is similar to ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’. On the graph, the shapes of those two blades look quite different.
On the contrary, the relationship between Ep and Ec of of ‘Carbonado 45’ looks very similar to that of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ although ‘Carbonado 45’ shows one step higher values than ‘Hurricane Long 5’. Although ‘Carbonado 45’ is one step faster than ‘Hurricane Long 5’, we will soon notice the similarity between those two blades in actual use.
‘Clipper CC’ is slower than traditional fast 7-ply wood blades such as ‘Clipper CR’. That is because ‘Clipper CC’ has been optimized for modern topspin style. However, it is still faster than ‘Hurricane Long 3’ which is also a 7-ply wood blade for modern topspin. In actual use we will not be able to feel the similarity between ‘Clipper CC’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ mainly because of the significant difference of Ec (1.61 vs. 1.34). In fact, ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is very close to ‘Korbel’ which is a typical 5-ply wood offensive blade. We will be able to easily replace our ‘Korbel’ with ‘Hurricane Long 3’ because the overall characteristic of ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is not that of a 7-ply wood blade but that of a typical 5-ply wood blade.
Examining Ec/Ep is an easier way to understand the tendency of elasticity of blades. Fig.08 shows the relationship between Ec/Ep and Ep.
Ec/Ep expresses the ‘tendency’ of the elasticity of blade. By examining Ec/Ep and Ep at the same time, we can easily understand the behavior of blades.
One the graph, all blades under comparison (except for reference blade whose value is fixed to 1.0) are in the range of Ec/Ep < 1.0, i.e. ‘Hold’ range.
We can notice that four blades – ‘Hurricane Long 5’, ‘Hurricane Long 3’ ‘Korbel’ and ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ – are placed near a vertical line that Ep = 1.6. However, those four blades show a variety of the level of ‘Hold’. ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is placed near the border between ‘Mild Hold’ area and ‘Deep Hold’ area. The one whose level of ‘Hold’ is the most extreme is ‘Hurricane Long 5’. ‘Korbel’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are placed in between ‘InnerForce ALC’ and ‘Hurricane Long 5’. It can be easily predicted that ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ and ‘Hurricane Long 5’ will be noticeably different from each other in actual use.
‘Clipper CC and ‘Carbonado 45’ are placed near a vertical line that Ep = 1.8. Those two blades can be considered as one step faster blades than former four blades those are placed near a vertical line that Ep = 1.6. Interestingly, ‘Clipper CC’ is close to ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’, while ‘Carbonado 45’ is close to ‘Hurricane Long 5’. The level of ‘Hold’ of ‘Clipper CC’ and ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is quite mild. However, the level of ‘Hold’ of ‘Carbonado 45’ and ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is extreme. If we have to replace our ‘Clipper CC’ with an ‘inner fiber’ blade and we don’t have much time for adaption, ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ may be better solution than ‘Hurricane Long 5’. ‘Hurricane 5’ will require more time for adaption if our former blade is a 7-ply wood blade with traditional construction such as ‘Clipper CC’.
‘Carbonado 45’ and ‘Hurricane Long 5’ are not similar in construction. ‘Carbonado 45’ is a fiber blade with ‘outer fiber’ construction while ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is a fiber blade with ‘inner fiber’ construction. Even there is difference of fiber material. The fiber of ‘Carbonado 45’ is pure carbon fiber although it is woven in very unique way, while the fiber of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is ALC which is the mixture of carbon fiber and arylate fiber. But, nevertheless those two are very similar with each other. ‘Extreme Hold’ is a word that can express the characteristic of those two. In recent years many top players have selected ‘Carbonado 45’ or ‘Hurricane Long 5’. It may be concerned with the ‘Extreme Hold’ of those two blades.
Then successively, let’s compare Vibration Indices. Fig. 09 shows the comparison graph of Vibration Indices.
Vibration Indices are concerned with feeling. Vp indicates primary feeling which is transferred to player’s palm. And, Vl is the feeling at the wing of a blade. It is felt by player’s index finger or middle finger.
The Vp’s of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are 1.06 and 1.11 respectively. It means that in primary feeling ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is a bit harder than ‘Hurricane Long 5’. The Vl’s of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are 1.27 and 1.25 respectively. We can notice that the difference between Vp and Vl of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is noticeably bigger than that between Vp and Vl of ‘Hurricane Long 3’.
On the graph, ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ shows relatively smaller gap between Vp and Vl, when compared with ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’. Some players will feel that ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is somewhat close to ‘Hurricane Long 3’. But, it will be hardly expected that there will be players who feel the similarity between ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ and ‘Hurricane Long 5’.
‘Korbel’ and ‘Carbonado 45’ look similar to ‘Hurricane Long 5’. We may also be albe to think that ‘Korbel’ is close to ‘Hurricane Long 3’.
The Ep of ‘Clipper CC’ is 1.20. That is the biggest value in this comparison. It means that it is the stiffest blade in this comparison. The El of ‘Clipper CC’ is 1.24. It is not much different from the other blades in the comparison (except for reference blade). Overall tendency of ‘Clipper CC’ on the graph is very unique. It may be the unique feeling of ‘7-ply wood’ blade in ‘traditional’ 7-ply construction.
From the comparison of Vibration Indices, we can conclude that both of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ provide the feeling similar to the 5-ply wood offensive blade such as ‘Korbel.
Examining Vl/Vp is an easier way for the comparison of the tendency of feeling. Fig.10 shows the relationship between Vl/Vp and Vp for easier comparison.
Fig.10 Vl/Vp vs. Vp
On the graph of Vl/Vp, all the blades except ‘Allround Classic whose values are fixed as 1.0 are placed in the range that Vl/Vp > 1.0. I.e. in ‘relatively sharper at fingertip (of index finger) and relatively softer at palm’ range.
The blade placed at highest position is ‘Hurricane Long 5’. ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is close to ‘Carbonado 45’ and ‘Korbel’ on the graph. Those three blades provide remarkably sharper relative feeling at index finger. ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is placed one step further.
We can also consider that all blades in the comparison (except for reference blade) are placed near a straight line which runs from upper left to lower right. ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is at upper left end, while ‘Clipper CC’ is at lower right end. ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is placed just in between ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Clipper CC’. On the line, ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is far from ‘Hurricane Long 5’. Instead, it is quite biased to ‘Clipper CC’.
Although the construction of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is similar to that of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’, there is significant difference in feeling. ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is very close to ‘Korbel’ which is a typical 5-ply wood offensive blade.
Also, ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is more biased to ‘Korbel’ than to ‘Clipper CC’. Its feeling is not much different from that of ‘Korbel’ which is a typical 5-ply wood offensive blade. It is not similar to ‘Clipper CC’ which is a 7-ply wood blade of traditional construction.
4. Summary
The result of comparison can be summarized as follows :
- The primary elasticity of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ or ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is close to that of a 5-ply wood offensive blade such as ‘Korbel’. ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ also shows similar level of primary elasticity. However, there is noticeable difference in the tendency of Ec/Ep. Both of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ holds ball very deep when player hits the ball very strongly. Those two has extreme tendency of ‘Deep Hold’, while the level of ‘Hold’ of ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ is somewhat mild.
- Both of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are very soft, and are relatively sharper at index finger. Especially ‘Hurricane Long 5’ shows very high level of sharper relative feeling at index finger.
- ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is not similar to ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’ which has almost identical construction but to ‘Carbonado 45’ whose construction is much different from that of ‘Hurricane Long 5’. Also ‘Hurricane Long 5’ is very close to ‘Korbel which is a 5-ply wood blade.
- In every aspect, ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is also close to ‘Korbel’ which is a 5-ply wood blade. It is not similar to ‘Clipper CC’. Overall characteristics of ‘Hurricane Long 3’ is in between ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘InnerForce Layer ALC’.
Both of ‘Hurricane Long 5’ and ‘Hurricane Long 3’ are keeping the overall characteristics of 5-ply wood offensive blade such as ‘Korbel’ Both of those two will be very good choice for the player who want to enhance power of blade but don’t want to give up the typical feeling of 5-ply wood offensive blade. The choice between those two depends on the level of ‘Hold’. If the player prefers deeper hold, ‘Hurricane Long 5’ will be better choice. But, if the player wants milder level of hold, ‘Hurricane Long 3’ will be better choice.
TTGearLab 
Nice work! Would be so nice to see if you can get one of these “famous” W968″ or “W997” in comparison to the Long 5. There are a lot of fakes out there, I even don’t know if those were legit to begin with.
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In fact, testing W968 is somewhat difficult, mainly because of its price.
Also, W968 differs by players. The W968 for Ma Long is different from the W968 for Jang Woo Jin or W968 for Jeong Young Sik. W968 is customize for individual player.
And, there so many fake W968s in the market. That is because it is not the product for sale. (However, sometimes the official DHS dealers deal with ones by special order. In that cases, of course the quantity is limited. And, that kind of special order is mainly for top players, and it is difficult for ordinary customers to buy it.)
Also, you will hardly be able to distinguish between original W968 and elaborate fake. 😉
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There is also the rumor that the Donic Ovtcharov No.1 is more or less a DHS Long 5 in disguise. I’ve seen a youtube video where Ma Long gave Dima two blades. If possible, measurements of the non-Senso and the Senso version would be really nice!
Also, speaking of chinese blades, I’m really interested in the Yinhe/Galaxy/Milky Way Earth series. At least Earth 1, Earth 2 and Earth 3 seem to be nearly identical. Only the outer veneer is different.
E.1= Koto
E.2=Hinoki
E.3=Limba
E.1 is more or less a clone of the old Stiga Offensive Classic (Ayous|Spruce|Koto) and the E.3 from the recent version (Ayous|Spruce|Limba).
The E.4 is a clone to the Nittaku Violin and it seems that the E.5 is a clone to the old Yasaka Gatien Extra. (Better clone seems to be the W-6, a little thinner)
Would be nice to see if the outer veneer has any impact on your measurements!
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Thank you for good information. (But, it is no more than a rumor yet.) 🙂
Of course the outer veneer affects the result. Also, second layer plays a very important role. If I have a chance I will write on it.
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Thanks for you work, man!
I appreciate, if you manage to build a full-size images of Ep/Ec over Ep and Ep/El over El graphs. That will be very convenient.
And if you accept requests, I’d like to view tests for nittaku inner-carbon blades and septear series.
Thanks you again!
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Thank you for comment!
In fact my performance indices can’t explain all aspects of blade. But, I expect that those performance indices will effectively ‘help’ your understanding on the performance of blades. 🙂
Concerning the blades you commented, I have data of Septear. But, I don’t have recent inner-carbon models from Nittaku. I’m considering to buy some models for testing. Which model are you interested in?
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I think, that I was a bit vague in my words and I misused the letters. What I was asking about is a graph, exactly as you do in your reviews, that contains ALL of your tested blades in one image. One for Ep/Ec, one for Vl/Vp.
I am interested in Acoustic Carbon/Inner Carbon and Violin Carbon/Inner Carbon.
Thank you.
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I have that kind of graph with raw data. But, it is not suitable for showing on home page because it is almost unreadable. There are too many blades on the graph, and as a result the graph is extremely complex.
And, I haven’t made that kind of graph for 4 indices those are shown in this home page.
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Again great job!
Surprised to see that both Long blades turn out to be relative “slow” blades, compared to Carbonado 45. And Long 5 seems even on par with IF ALC. I would expect Long5 to be faster, so this analysis is a nice eye opener 🙂
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That is the disadvantage of ‘Inner Fiber’ construction. Because the span between fiber and fiber is smaller, the influence of fiber layers to bending stiffness is smaller.
In fact, if we just think about the efficiency, ‘Outer Fiber’ construction is much better than ‘Inner Fiber’ construction. However, skilled players like the ‘feeling’ of inner fiber blades. ‘Being close to 5-ply wood blades’ is the advantage of Inner Fiber blades. For that reason we don’t need to consider the lower speed as disadvantage.
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Hi, great work, i love these kind of technical reviews.
Do you also know how thick each layer is? If the build of the Ma Long 5 is close to identical to an innerforce ALC, only the thickness of each layer (or even the glue) can make the difference.
Best regards
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Thank you for comment. Of course I can measure the thickness of each layer. However, there is the process of ‘pressing’ during the manufacturing of blade. For that reason, what we measure can be a bit different from the original thickness of a layer. And, it is not easy to explain the small difference. For example if one is 0.58mm and the other is 0.62mm, both of those can be explained just as 0.6mm.
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Hi, am an avid reader of your reviews. Would also be interested if you post the full depository of all blades in one spreadsheet.
Yes, these indices don’t measure everything, but would be a good starting point for empirical comparisons.
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Hi, as a Scientist myself, I really like your approach and use of these indices.
Have you considered comparing HL3 and HL5 to other but cheaper Asian blades with a similar composition, like DHS Hurricane 301, DHS Fang Bo 2, DHS PG-5 or Sanwei F3 Pro (for HL5) and DHS PG-7 or Sawei Fextra VII (for HL3)?
This could be interesting for people considering upgrading from a 5-ply wood blade, which is not willing to spend the amount needed for buying a HL3 or HL5 or Innerforce Layer ALC or alike.
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Thank you for comment.
Among the blades you mentioned, I don’t have Sanwei blades on my hand. For that reason I can’t answer about Sanwei blades. But, I have some samples of DHS blades. First, Fang Bo 2 is almost identical to Hurricane Long 5. But, we can’t expect the spec sheet inside the case of Fang Bo 2. (I think that the difference between HL5 and B2 is concerned with quality control. Also there are some special models in HL5 those are adjusted for individual player. We can’t see that kind of ones from B2.) The average rating of HL5 is absolutely same as that of B2. I can’t find any difference.
Also PG7 is almost identical to HL3. I can’t find any difference between PG7 and HL3.
Hurricane 301 is different from HL5/B2. The top layer of HL5/B2 is Limba. But, the top layer of H301 is Koto.
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Hello, I happened to own two PG7 blades and I must say they were pretty different from each other. Really poor quality control. And both these blades, according to all kinds of reviews of HL3 I could see, were not on par with HL3. Perhaps I was just very unlucky to get these bad copies, or it was you who were lucky and got a PG7 that is wrll-made..
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The quality of PG7 is not as good as that of Hurricane Long 3. But, I have many pieces and get average weight of it. Although the deviation of PG7 is big, the average values get closer to those of HL3.
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Hello Sir,
currently i am using HL5 and i am a counterdriver/smasher/blocker.
base on your research, it shows that i am using a wrong blade for my playing style.
base on my playing style, what are the blades that can you recommend for me?
Thank you,
Angelo, 30, Philippines
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HL5 is excellent for topspin and very good for counter-topspin. It is very good for block. However it is just moderate for smash.
For that reason, it is ‘not bad’ for your style.
We need a compromise between counter-topspin and smash. Harder blade with higher Ec/Ep is better for smash. But, softer blade with lower Ec/Ep is better for counter-topspin. For that reason, finding a best blade for you will be difficult. HL5 may be a good compromise between two extreme cases, although it is better for counter-topspin than for smash. If there isn’t any problem in your smash, you don’t need to change.
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What is the difference in speed between hl5 and BTF Harimoto blade?
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I don’t have Harimoto. But, I expect that it will be a bit faster than ordinary InnerForce Layer ALC because it is heavier.
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Hi, I am very impressed by all the work and effort you put into each overview and I’m also extremely happy that this site somehow ended up in my google search suggestions! If I may ask a indirect question about DHS Hurricane Long 5 and 3 as a DHS manufactured products. I’ve heard they are related with DHS PG 5 and DHS PG 7 the latter ones being cheaper yet very similar in feel and every other aspect except having no superstars name behind them. Have you heard/read any mentions or encountered these blades yourself by any chance? If not maybe that could make a good comparison in the future as these DHS PG series are quite cheap (20-30US$~) and readily available in every e-store I’ve visited so far!
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Thank you for comment. What you mentioned is right. I also have samples of PG5 and PG7. And, I consider PG5 as the same blade as Hurricane Long 5. And, PG7 as the same blade as Hurricane Long 3. However, the quality (in finishing and blade construction) of PG5/7 is lower than that of Hurricane Long 5/3. Sometimes the thickness of wood layer is not even in PG5/7. And, it makes the difference of feeling and performance. (Although the “average” of PG5/7 is same as that of HL5/3.)
I think that the quality control is not sufficiently done for low cost models. Anyway the construction is identical.
And, if you want to buy the blade with better quality than PG5 and lower price than HL5, the solution is ‘Fang Bo 2’. Its construction is also the same as that of HL5.
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Nice work.
Do you have for Stiga Clipper Wood data?
I have DHS PG 7 too which is way cheaper than DHS H L 5. Now using Andro Timber 7 Off/S blade.
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Thank you for comment. Do you mean HL3? PG7 is almost same a HL3. But, it is much cheaper. 🙂 (Of course the quality of PG7 is lower than that of HL3.)
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Hi, nice work.
What do you think of HL 5x?
And what do you think of the blade for penholders? The HL5 or HL5x for a penholder.
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Thank you for comment. But, I don’t have HL 5X. If I can get one, I will also measure it.
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Hello, thank you for the article. Could you share the weight of the HL5 you have tested here? Thank you.
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Thank you for comment. The range of tested HL5 is 87~90 gram. And, the results are averaged values.
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Hello are you able to do a proper test of DHS H301? I would be very gratefull. You are doing a great job. Cheers
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I’m considering to deal with that blade. It is harder and faster than HL5.
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I am very interested in a comparison of HL5 vs. HL5X. Would be really nice to see the real difference in meassured values. Could you do that?
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Thank you for comment. I have already measured HL5X. I will also write an article on HL5X. Still I couldn’t take pictures of HL5X. But, I can open the values of HL5X.
Ep = 1.83
Ec = 1.52 (Ec/Ep = 0.83)
Vp = 1.18
Vl = 1.35 (Vl/Vp = 1.14)
You will be able to notice the enhanced elasticity.
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Great article, could you please post a comparison of HL5 with HL5X and Carbonado 90, 145 and 190.
May I suggest adding weights and thickness of the specimen blades in your comparisons?
Thanks.
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Thank you for comment. In fact HL5X is scheduled to be the subject of next article. There is already data on HL5X. However, I have to take new pictures. It make take some time.
(The article on another product may be posted before the one on HL5X.)
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Halo,
1. What equipment did you use to do the test?
2. How does HL5 compare to BTY Viscaria?
Thanks.
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I’m sorry that I haven’t noticed your comment. I have noticed it just now.
The equipments are some sensors, data logger and software for calculation.
The selection between HL5 and Viscaria depends mainly on feeling. Viscaria shares the construction with Timo Boll Spirit/ALC. But, because the average weight of Viscaria is much lower than that of Timo Boll Spirit/ALC, the elasticity of Viscaria is lower than expected. Of course it is still faster than normal HL5. But, I think that the players who use Viscaria or HL 5 will not care the speed difference between those two. If a player prefer softer one, HL5 will be better. If a player wants relatively sharp feeling, Viscaria will be better. Also, because of the difference of basic construction, the feeling of Viscaria is relatively more artificial, and the feeling of HL5 is relatively more natural.
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Adding my 2 cents: I now own a Hurricane Long 2. It is a completely different beast comparing to PG-7. PG-7 is slower, more flexible blade, sweet spot is not that big, as on HL2. People are saying, that HL3 has even bigger sweet spot than HL2, so…HL2 and HL3 are definitely very different from PG-7.
Also, the quality of Long 2 is just NOT on par with PG-7, amazingly crafted blade. PG-7 is very inconsistent (meaning – take 2 blades and they may be very different, even the top ply visually is different).
There’s also TG-506, w506, I don’t know much about those blades, but they are supposed to be different from PG-7 as well.
If you’re thinking of testing 7 ply blades from DHS, one should definitely consider having all those blades and compare them between each other.
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Thank you for comment.
In fact, the problem of PG-7 is its ‘deviation’ between pc. can pc. You will be able to find a PG-7 which is noticeably different from another PG-7.
On the contrary, the deviation of HL3 isn’t that big. Differently speaking, the quality of HL3 is much better than that of PG-7.
That is also the reason why PG-7 is cheap but HL3 is expensive although those two blades share basic structure.
Average value is same. But, many pcs. of PG-7 is far from that average.
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Hello! Thank you for your work, very interesting articles and information.
If i can, i want to ask few clarifying questions.
1)I red articles that explain concepts, but i still do not understand what does “Deep hold” and other categoeries mean, how a blade can “hold” a ball, if in reality it will be repulsed by any contact with the blade? I red around and in comments on another article you mentioned contact time is around 1/1000 of a second. Because of this i do not fully understand what you mean by hold rating unfortunately, can you please exaplin it one more time?
2)Question is related to the first one. In Stiga Nostalgic article you mention that because blades are deep hold, they are great for spinning th eball, for shots like topspin and banana flick if i understand you correctly. How does this rating correlate with spin aspect of the blades, can you please explain.
3)Question about blades. I red article on HL5 and Stiga Nostalgic series. Surprisingly enought, if we look at ratings it seems to me that nostalgic blades are very close to HL5. In “hold” rating both Nostalgic Offensive and Nostalgic VII are “better” then HL5. In speed NO is faster then HL5. I was looking at the HL5 because people say it’s good for spinning the ball, but downside is – it is expensive.
Can we say that we can “replace” HL5 with NO or NClassic (NO would be faster), if i want the spin component people are talking about? Can this statement be made?
4)Currently i’m using Yasaka Ma lin Soft carbon, do you by any chance have stats for it so i can compare it to the other blades mentioned? I saw the stats for Ma Lin Carbon and i assume Soft Carbon is more toned in everything version of it.
Thank you!!
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Thank you a lot for comment!
1) The word ‘Hold’ just means that the stiffness of the center of blade is relatively low. (‘Kick’ means relatively high stiffness.) As you mentioned, it is different from actual ‘hold’. In fact it is closer to our feeling. If the center is relatively soft, we feel that as if the center of blade holds the ball although the blade doesn’t actually hold the ball.
2) Deep hold doesn’t directly concerned with spin. It is concerned with the ‘kind’ of our playing style. ‘Hold’ is good for aggressive spin play, and ‘Kick’ is good for precise spin play. I’m sorry if you are confused by the explanation in the article. Sometimes I do the mistake that cause confusion.
3) There is another factor we have to take into consideration. That is the kind of the wood for top layer. Even though all four indices are identical, the difference of the top layer prevents us from replacing one with the other. Please note that four indices can’t express everything of blade. We have to be careful when we replace our blade with another one whose top layer is much different.
4) Currently I don’t have Ma Lin Soft Carbon. And, I don’t have data. But, I expect that its Ep and Vp are lower than those of Ma Lin Carbon. (I’m not sure whether Ec and Vl will also be lower than those of Ma Lin Carbon.)
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I really enjoyed your conceptualizing a framework for evaluating blade characteristics objectively. Thank you for working hard to educate the table tennis community!
I have a few questions that I hope I can interest you in answering:
– I am not quite clear on the “kick” described in the article because I associated that semantical term with the catapult effect on the ball when I hit/spin the ball very hard. It’s a very pronounced, visual effect where the ball vaults over the expected landing zone, surprising everyone, including the looper/server! Or maybe you are referring to the non-linearity of the blade response due to “over-hitting” or perhaps to the “rebound” difference in material such as from a spongy surface vs a metal surface?
– How do you anticipate the effect on elasticity and vibration variables, and ergo on feel and speed, when rubbers are added and do you have any insight on the effect of common combinations such as H3/BTY or H3/H3?
– I was wondering if you had done a similar test on the popular Viscaria blade. It’s my “other blade” that I migrated away from my current Ma Long 5 so I am trying to understand your articles from two frames of reference.
Thank you again for doing such a wonderful job on this. Looking forward to more awesome stuff from you!
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Thank you for comment. And, I’m sorry that my reply has been seriously delayed. I couldn’t have visited my site for some time.
The ‘kick’ is totally different from catapult effect. It means that the feeling of blade becomes harder than its original feeling when we hit the ball strongly. On the contrary, the feeling doesn’t become harder in case catapult effect is big. Also, the treatment of the blade with high ‘kick’ value can be difficult because the blade is somewhat sensitive to what we do. Differently speaking, there is more room for ‘adjustment’ if we understand the ‘kick’ characteristic of the blade. On the contrary, if the blade is categorized as ‘hold’ blade, the fine adjustment of stroke becomes more difficult. Instead, it is easier to use at close-to-table area because it is less sensitive to what we do.
So the ‘kick’ and the ‘hold’ is more concerned with the preference or the playing style of player. In fact, high kick value doesn’t mean the long trajectory.
In global view, the speed and the feeling (= feeling on hardness) is concerned with each other. Simply speaking, faster blade is harder. However, that is no more than the global tendency. Some blades are offset from the line of feeling vs. speed. And, that makes very interesting characteristics of some blades. My method is one of the trial to explain various characteristics of table tennis blades. But, please understand that my trial is not perfect, and it can’t explain everything of blades. (Also, there are some factors those I know but I don’t show because those factors can make things too complex. Although not perfect, I think that simpler expression is better for most of readers.)
Migration from HL5 to Viscaria will not be difficult because those two have similar ‘hold’ characteristics, although the surface of Viacaris is harder than that of HL5.
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Thank you for replying.
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vorrei sapere in quale sito europeo potrei acquistare una lama originale dhs huricane 968 nazional e quali sono le differenze tra long 5 . grazie
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Probably there isn’t European shop that sells W968 officially. In fact, W968 doesn’t mean the specific specification of blade. According to a DHS distributor, W968 is the inside code of DHS that is just the term for custom version of HL5. So the 968 for one player may be different from the 968 for the other player.
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Thank you very much for this article. Could you, please, share the weight of the HL3 you have tested here?
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Oh! I have just noticed that the weight data is missing. It is 89.0g. I will update that article.
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